Author Topic: Patreon - August Article  (Read 3380 times)

Wesan

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Patreon - August Article
« on: September 01, 2019, 13:36 »

Dequ

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Re: Patreon - August Article
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2019, 15:14 »
Video made of this article

邪悪

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Re: Patreon - August Article
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2019, 17:27 »
I think you better rethink the "disability" to mod UI and make it moddable.
And add a button in options to restore 2D. If players carry some 3D-only items or other stuff - just ignore it and don't show it. In 2D-mode only armor will be shown, just like it always was. When I saw 3d models I facepalmed, when I linked the videos from patreon to my friends, they laughed. I just remember fo2238 topic about 3d and all these screenshots over and over and can't understand why can't you learn from the past.
It's not just me. I can 100% guarantee you, that when everything is ready, you'll see posts about giving them an ability to restore old 2D sprites. These posts will appear every time a player decided to return and play fo.
I remember how fo2238 decided to experiment and changed rats into 3D. It was just rats and it was terrible, and I remember that good feeling when they restored them back to 2D, even though I rarely saw them, when I finally encountered them and saw them in 2D I had really good feeling :D I was so happy to see those 2D rats! I've almost forgotten how they looked like in 2D!

shekel_goblin

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Re: Patreon - August Article
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2019, 18:31 »
with every article released im getting more and more disappointed

Wesan

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Re: Patreon - August Article
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2019, 07:24 »
Hey, I understand your point about 3d>2d option and I wouldn't say no if that would be simple, but it is not.

Overall 3D models are in there for a ton of gameplay-related reasons, especially Fully playable mutant, and ghoul, while the only argument against them is that some people might not like the look.

Which is a normal thing with big changes, and well, the models aren't the only one significant step towards a different direction.

I've said enough about this topic before, sorry to disappoint.

Besmrtnik

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Re: Patreon - August Article
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2019, 22:05 »
I must admit I am also bigger far of 2D then 3D, it was also bad in 2238, all characters that were in 3d seemed out of place, "hovering" "floating" "sliding"

comparing your last video from boneyard, and this new one, I can see that this one is better with lower fps is better fitting, in July article 3d chars also had feeling of "sliding" while walking.

I know there is a lot of work behind all this animations, and that you will not give up on them, with them just maybe you can even attract few new players, but I bet you 90% of old players would far rather have old clunky 2d sprites, as I said I am more fan of 2D also, but I respect your hard work with new 3d sprites and with lower frame rate, they just might work

and also I noticed black guy red shirt/orange, and homeless guy in yellowish shirt in this new video are in 2d, will you convert all sprites to 3d, or will you leave them as it is?
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Dequ

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Re: Patreon - August Article
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2019, 08:05 »
I personally dont play any game for the graphics. I am fan of old games and ASCII games (text graphics), because the feeling and mechanics which I find very interesting. Most new games I have tried have failed to fullfill my desires. Fallouts & Fonlines is one of those games I enjoy other reasons that graphics. "New generation" gamers tend to enjoy more about simplified gameplay mechanics and better graphic quality and this have had huge impact on now days game industry. Those games are made for crowds and are simple and have lost the "feeling".

I agreed with Besmrtnik that "classic 3d setting, no animation smoothing, 18 fps animation limit, and no multisampling" seems lot smoother and had less "sliding effect". If need to choose, I would go with that settings.

I undestand that 3d Animations might upset some people, but it also bring a lot easier customization possibilities and then possible more variation for gameplay like races, (dualwielding?), custom skins, different clothing which were not possible before. Have you ever wanted to see Mutant dualwielding 2 miniguns? According to Yoummuu this is much easier to do for 3d animation than old 2d sprites. Best solution would be that player could choose to between 3d/2d, but it is not always that everything could be done in decent amount of work and time spend and compromises has to been made in order to get done more important aspects.

邪悪

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Re: Patreon - August Article
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2019, 09:07 »
I personally dont play any game for the graphics. I am fan of old games and ASCII games (text graphics), because the feeling and mechanics which I find very interesting. Most new games I have tried have failed to fullfill my desires. Fallouts & Fonlines is one of those games I enjoy other reasons that graphics. "New generation" gamers tend to enjoy more about simplified gameplay mechanics and better graphic quality and this have had huge impact on now days game industry. Those games are made for crowds and are simple and have lost the "feeling".

I agreed with Besmrtnik that "classic 3d setting, no animation smoothing, 18 fps animation limit, and no multisampling" seems lot smoother and had less "sliding effect". If need to choose, I would go with that settings.

I undestand that 3d Animations might upset some people, but it also bring a lot easier customization possibilities and then possible more variation for gameplay like races, (dualwielding?), custom skins, different clothing which were not possible before. Have you ever wanted to see Mutant dualwielding 2 miniguns? According to Yoummuu this is much easier to do for 3d animation than old 2d sprites. Best solution would be that player could choose to between 3d/2d, but it is not always that everything could be done in decent amount of work and time spend and compromises has to been made in order to get done more important aspects.

Graphics have great impact on immersion and "feeling" too. When it's inconsistent - your eyes start bleeding. I can play old games with pixel graphics, but when the game looks like amateur indie game made by a pure-coder, who used free 3d assets from completely different authors and just put it all in a game - it doesn't matter what mechanics the game has. There're games that look so terrible, that this will distract you 100% of your game time and you won't be able to think about something else.

E.g.
this abomination, called Might&Magic 9:


is worse than this (don't know what it is):


Rascal

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Re: Patreon - August Article
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2019, 11:14 »
Well just try to be open minded and give it a shot.
Probably some people who are sceptical from seeing vids, will change their mind when they gona experience new graphics from the first perspective when they gona launch the game and play.
Other might get used to it pretty fast after playing few hours.
The aim is to make it as close to original and as fitting to 2nd environement as possible.
Benefist from implementing 3d are beyond arguing.

For all those who are comparing our 3d with 3d that was on 2238 - its totally different level. 2238 3d attemps like rats etc. were a joke in comparism to stuff we have now, totally different quality and level.

Have some hope guys and give it a try :)
   

   

Lalaxx

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Re: Patreon - August Article
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2019, 11:24 »

will change their mind when they gona experience new graphics from the first perspective when they gona launch the game and play.

btw what are estimated date of launch?

Alaestor

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Re: Patreon - August Article
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2019, 12:09 »
Fallout2 graphics actually looks horrible but since it was all we had back then we got used to it and now FOnline is nostalgic and we love the graphics because we're used to it. Kind of like a bad painting.

Other games like LoL for example change a lot and release new champions or update older ones and most people dont like the appearance until a few hours or days but afterwards they forgot what it used to look like and enjoy the newer version as the old.

The concept of the game remains the same only with much more possibilities and more room to expand.

wazzaup

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Re: Patreon - August Article
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2019, 18:25 »
I think you guys are on the right track. Last update I was shocked by the 3d models this time I hardly noticed them until mentioned in this thread (especially because I was looking at the entire picture). And I get why you guys are doing it, the possibilities in terms of character modulation is endless. I will however say this; I think the fallout native sprites have less than 18 frames, they might be animated on 18 frames. If I remember correctly each action had about 8 frames. Also something I noticed is the contrast the older sprites had a lot harder blacks and vibrant colours, this is I think because they scanned clay models giving them a sorta glossy finish, maybe that could we something that helps.

Also anyone got footage of the 3d rats in 2238?
A wild WastelandHippie appears .

邪悪

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Re: Patreon - August Article
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2019, 18:39 »
Also anyone got footage of the 3d rats in 2238?

I googled fo2238 3d and got this:



At 6:00 there's a rat at top right.

And here armors from 2238 as 3d:
https://fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/3d_armors_development_tracker

vedaras

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Re: Patreon - August Article
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2019, 19:40 »
Well... people aren't with 3 IN, they understand that 3d helps with customisation etc. but i just want to remind, why people play this game, they play it because of nostalgia to fallout 2 and 1, after playing those i am thinking to get back to this online bussiness myself, but this just doesnt look fallout and i dont want to play some game with great customisation, for that i can play f4, f76, whatever, i want to play good old fallout, and one more thing, i remember in old 2238 times, people were talking that drawing all sprites for one skin takes like 1200 pictures, well its quite lot, but you fuckin work on this 3d shit for how long? how many skins you would have completed by then? That would be an improvement, and what you doing now, its just different thing, some might like it, some might hate, but its still a different thing :)

Mike Torello

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Re: Patreon - August Article
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2019, 22:58 »
Something new i support.Cuz old times nostalgia  will definetly try 😃.
Do your things guys, full speed ahead! Tnx for tryin.
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