Author Topic: Open beta 2.5 test server launched.  (Read 40668 times)

MajinCry

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 824
    • View Profile
Re: Open beta 2.5 test server launched.
« Reply #90 on: December 26, 2013, 19:36 »
And all you need to do is just have your mouse settings setup correctly. Then all you need to do is just follow the character. Or shoot at a hex next to you with Ctrl+click
Roleplay. Roleplaaaaay. ROLEPLAY!

Characters:

Juurik
Eriksson
Derrek
Darren
Ray Fennerbert

SmallGreg

  • Developer
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 365
    • View Profile
Re: Open beta 2.5 test server launched.
« Reply #91 on: December 26, 2013, 20:01 »
Wesan do you plan to launch Hunger Games today?
« Last Edit: December 26, 2013, 20:03 by SmallGreg »
     

avv

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1029
    • View Profile
Re: Open beta 2.5 test server launched.
« Reply #92 on: December 26, 2013, 21:03 »
1 hexing with burst weapons is based on skill and reflexes.
Ping, lag and FPS. You can be one of the best FOnline players, but if you have a bad ping and low FPS all you can do is moonwalking.

Yeah but technical matters can't be taken into account because people with bad hardware and location are always at disadvantage. If 2 bursters with same technical settings do battle, the one with better skills and reflexes wins in repeated test conditions.

Realism

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 71
    • View Profile
Re: Open beta 2.5 test server launched.
« Reply #93 on: December 26, 2013, 21:57 »
No more "Skillfull"1hex playing
Stop trying to find skill where there is none.

What do u mean no skill? We have our skill formula! Look!

Spoiler
Code: [Select]
#include bgnline.h;
//include balance.h;

if(cr.isPlayer){
    cr.Skill = cr.stat[SK_BIG_GUNS] * pow( cr.StatBase[ST_ENDURANCE], cr.StatBase[ST_ENDURANCE] );
}

ScarabParamit

  • *
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: Open beta 2.5 test server launched.
« Reply #94 on: December 27, 2013, 13:24 »
What's still with the whine (yes it's starting to resemble whine) about unarmed not being good enough? It's already the best 1v1 build. What else does it need to do?
or...as in real life...back up away from Your oponent.
Can't because melee fighters run faster.

Melee fighter can't kill You with "one shot" like BG can, he might try to brake your leg or knockback You, but its a matter of 32% max for critical with 10 luck and Marksman Implant or 42% with finese (broken perk either way so i doubt anyone will take it) and some more if aimed properly in the head...still sucessful knockback for looooong is not warranted, so BG'unner still has more chance to hit him hard than Melee fighter to brake his legs or arms...what would give him a win if BG is ALONE -.-
In most occasions even with most drastic scenario damage wise BG would be hit for 50HP and would run away a little to be hited once more for 50HP...then melee fighter  has no more AP to attack and while running AP don't regenerate. Also BG can fire 2 burst or heal with S-SP or broken FA.
Also we may add penalty for hit chance if target moves...?

Either way its funny how plenty speak of "1hex tricky skillful combat of driving other player into wasteful RANGE combat" ... -.-
Thats all what wrong ...stupid players who think range guns are 1hex weapons...because they deal more damage this way. I can...realy...understand SMG's...they are handy and less usefull than assault rifles do to low range.
Thats why game mechanics must prevent this...THIS IS BROKEN AND UNBALANCED!
I know BG might be "balanced" some way around...but are not for any other gun in the game or clas other than BG'unner, even my CC friend was forced to take BG as alt skill for PvP. We should not be forced for such things to stand a chance with generic player -> BG'unner =/
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 13:38 by ScarabParamit »

MajinCry

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 824
    • View Profile
Re: Open beta 2.5 test server launched.
« Reply #95 on: December 27, 2013, 14:25 »
Don't expect this to change, Scarab. The folks that frequent this forum, by and large, like their godly big guns.

Sadly.
Roleplay. Roleplaaaaay. ROLEPLAY!

Characters:

Juurik
Eriksson
Derrek
Darren
Ray Fennerbert

DrapiChrust

  • Wiki Editor
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 464
  • Currently Foffline
    • View Profile
Re: Open beta 2.5 test server launched.
« Reply #96 on: December 27, 2013, 14:53 »
What's still with the whine (yes it's starting to resemble whine) about unarmed not being good enough? It's already the best 1v1 build. What else does it need to do?
or...as in real life...back up away from Your oponent.
Can't because melee fighters run faster.

Melee fighter can't kill You with "one shot" like BG can, he might try to brake your leg or knockback You, but its a matter of 32% max for critical with 10 luck and Marksman Implant or 42% with finese (broken perk either way so i doubt anyone will take it) and some more if aimed properly in the head...still sucessful knockback for looooong is not warranted, so BG'unner still has more chance to hit him hard than Melee fighter to brake his legs or arms...what would give him a win if BG is ALONE -.-
In most occasions even with most drastic scenario damage wise BG would be hit for 50HP and would run away a little to be hited once more for 50HP...then melee fighter  has no more AP to attack and while running AP don't regenerate. Also BG can fire 2 burst or heal with S-SP or broken FA.
Also we may add penalty for hit chance if target moves...?

One basic mistake. HTH chars don't go for criticals. In fact, best (sadly only one viable, AFAIK) HTH build goes for knockDOWN. How? 1: Heavy handed trait - greatly increases kd chance (it doesn't have to ba a critical hit!) 2. 10 strength - again, for maxed out kd chance. 3. Proper weapon - maga power fist is the best as far as I remember. Mix these three and you'll have 90% knockdown chance not dependant on crital chance. Mix this with low ap cost and faster movement speed = you can stunlock everybody 1vs1. First hit knocks enemy down, others prevent him from standing up, so you can beat him senslessly until he's dead. This is why 'oldboys' keep nagging that hth builds are so good 1vs1. Because this build is. The problem here may be an enemy with stonewall that will reduce your kd chance to 45%. Before it wasn't a big problem - 6 strength si minimum for stonewall, and nobody had 6 strength. Now it is harder to make a 'weak' build that will work in pvp, so we'll se more builds with 6 strength, so there might be more guys with stonewall out there...

I doubt if you could mix this hth build and try to add some critical chance to it.

Quote
Either way its funny how plenty speak of "1hex tricky skillful combat of driving other player into wasteful RANGE combat" ... -.-
Thats all what wrong ...stupid players who think range guns are 1hex weapons...because they deal more damage this way. I can...realy...understand SMG's...they are handy and less usefull than assault rifles do to low range.
Thats why game mechanics must prevent this...THIS IS BROKEN AND UNBALANCED!
I know BG might be "balanced" some way around...but are not for any other gun in the game or clas other than BG'unner, even my CC friend was forced to take BG as alt skill for PvP. We should not be forced for such things to stand a chance with generic player -> BG'unner =/

Mechanics isn't broken. It's just very specific. Not really realistic, and still not balanced enough, but it works. Some may like it, some not, but you can't say it's broken. CC chars can do pvp, bursters can do pvp, snipers and energy snipers can do pvp. Hell, even a flamer boy can do pvp. All you need is getting a grasp of what works and what not. If your friend made a CC char and went for critical chance, then yeah, his build was broken and bursting was the only thing to fix it. But it was fault of not understanding the game mechanics.

Finally - yes, onehexing requires skill, or agile fingers if you prefer. Ever saw two bg guys trying to onehex one another and not get onehexed themselves? That's the sight to see  ::)

P.S. Don't listen to Maijin, he's the most machanics-ignorant player I've ever seen. Dunno how he achieved it.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 14:55 by DrapiChrust »

Wunglorz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 919
  • Fedruj dla Szatana.
    • View Profile
Re: Open beta 2.5 test server launched.
« Reply #97 on: December 27, 2013, 15:59 »
Don't expect this to change, Scarab. The folks that frequent this forum, by and large, like their godly big guns.

Sadly.
Bla bla bla bla bla.

Something which needs a lot of skill, a lot of ammo, and a lot of crafting matterials, and a lot of experience in usage should be deadly.
Muj giejem taki piekny

MajinCry

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 824
    • View Profile
Re: Open beta 2.5 test server launched.
« Reply #98 on: December 27, 2013, 16:11 »
Bla bla bla bla bla.

Something which needs a lot of skill, a lot of ammo, and a lot of crafting matterials, and a lot of experience in usage should be deadly.

Bla bla bla bla bla.

Even though you can get the skill up with ease when it's tagged, when you can get ammo easily with a science alt (same goes for materials)...? Come on now. Don't try and disguise the truth.

And experience in usage? That applies for every build.
Roleplay. Roleplaaaaay. ROLEPLAY!

Characters:

Juurik
Eriksson
Derrek
Darren
Ray Fennerbert

kowal2300

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 174
    • View Profile
Re: Open beta 2.5 test server launched.
« Reply #99 on: December 28, 2013, 00:53 »
Come one guys, its everything about rock / paper / scissors.. its called ballance like its in WoW, but.. sometimes skilled players can break the rules. Scissors beat paper and avoid rocks and that is called ballance.

starting 1:15


BG's can kill HtH but wont do that, as BG's cant see 'em.. Who the hell run toward the monster wielding minigun and wanna kill him with 'ekhm 'ekhm.. turbo plasma knife? :D Please be serious, with knife you can try to kill rats and geckos or other SG's, no psycho-Rambo-warriors..
« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 00:57 by kowal2300 »
ImSoCute
Kruszynka

avv

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1029
    • View Profile
Re: Open beta 2.5 test server launched.
« Reply #100 on: December 28, 2013, 07:59 »
Melee fighter can't kill You with "one shot" like BG can, he might try to brake your leg or knockback You, but its a matter of 32% max for critical with 10 luck and Marksman Implant or 42% with finese (broken perk either way so i doubt anyone will take it) and some more if aimed properly in the head...still sucessful knockback for looooong is not warranted, so BG'unner still has more chance to hit him hard than Melee fighter to brake his legs or arms...what would give him a win if BG is ALONE -.-
In most occasions even with most drastic scenario damage wise BG would be hit for 50HP and would run away a little to be hited once more for 50HP...then melee fighter  has no more AP to attack and while running AP don't regenerate. Also BG can fire 2 burst or heal with S-SP or broken FA.
Also we may add penalty for hit chance if target moves...?

Either way its funny how plenty speak of "1hex tricky skillful combat of driving other player into wasteful RANGE combat" ... -.-
Thats all what wrong ...stupid players who think range guns are 1hex weapons...because they deal more damage this way. I can...realy...understand SMG's...they are handy and less usefull than assault rifles do to low range.
Thats why game mechanics must prevent this...THIS IS BROKEN AND UNBALANCED!
I know BG might be "balanced" some way around...but are not for any other gun in the game or clas other than BG'unner, even my CC friend was forced to take BG as alt skill for PvP. We should not be forced for such things to stand a chance with generic player -> BG'unner =/

First of all, avenger burst against max resist (camkii, 2xtoughness, psycho) char does around 170 dmg on onehex. Proper close combat pvp builds have over 300 hp. Good avenger does more but then again you can also have good armor.
Secondly, at least avenger isn't the top notch close combat ranged weapon. Avenger just has best ranged burst past flamer range. Its onehex is powerful, but flamer or p90 actually beat avenger in close combat settings.
What's more is that you keep saying that bg can heal itself against unarmed or melee punches. It's true, but so can the unarmed build heal itself against bursts. All good builds have high FA. And I don't buy it that burster loses to good melee player. The melee has such advantages that he will win in the end, it just takes goddamn long.

Burst onehex move is awesome feature until we find something else that rewards individual player's coordination skills equally well. So far some people suggest the entire removal of the ability because they apparently die in. Such opinions show incredible lack of insight of basic pvp. Removing onehex would mean that ranged burst fights would never end because tanks can heal faster than ranged bursts do damage.

You might be correct that there are some serious unbalances based on builds but I'd say the main reason is that people have the ability to make very bad or very good builds. There are perks, skills and stats that are very bad compared to each other. At the moment it's not possible to make a build based on your tastes and expect it to succeed.

Also, a character whose plan to win is to get close is fundamentally at disadvantage because everyone knows its plan the moment they see it. So it's very irrational to demand mechanical benefits because your plan is bad.
And lastly, next time you use the word realism to justify any mechanic change demands, remind yourself that it's realistic that guns beat fists. So better forget realism because it simply blows the context out of window. Realism is only good for creating immersion. 

ScarabParamit

  • *
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: Open beta 2.5 test server launched.
« Reply #101 on: December 29, 2013, 16:18 »
One basic mistake. HTH chars don't go for criticals. In fact, best (sadly only one viable, AFAIK) HTH build goes for knockDOWN. How? 1: Heavy handed trait - greatly increases kd chance (it doesn't have to ba a critical hit!) 2. 10 strength - again, for maxed out kd chance. 3. Proper weapon - maga power fist is the best as far as I remember. Mix these three and you'll have 90% knockdown chance not dependant on crital chance. Mix this with low ap cost and faster movement speed = you can stunlock everybody 1vs1. First hit knocks enemy down, others prevent him from standing up, so you can beat him senslessly until he's dead. This is why 'oldboys' keep nagging that hth builds are so good 1vs1. Because this build is. The problem here may be an enemy with stonewall that will reduce your kd chance to 45%. Before it wasn't a big problem - 6 strength si minimum for stonewall, and nobody had 6 strength. Now it is harder to make a 'weak' build that will work in pvp, so we'll se more builds with 6 strength, so there might be more guys with stonewall out there...

I doubt if you could mix this hth build and try to add some critical chance to it.

Finally - yes, onehexing requires skill, or agile fingers if you prefer. Ever saw two bg guys trying to onehex one another and not get onehexed themselves? That's the sight to see  ::)

Sad thing then is HtH who got chance only when going for knockdown and block player...thats stupid to! You want to justify broken 1hex burst vs. CC with other CC broken mechanics leaving BG'unner without any further chance to defend.
Those both things are broken, and i don't change my mind about this, i played to much games to simply accept this crap.

...avenger isn't the top notch close combat ranged weapon....

maybe because its a RANGED WEAPON and not close combat? ...to be used over distance? ^^' ...and yet its better than HtH in close combat >.<

Also, a character whose plan to win is to get close is fundamentally at disadvantage because everyone knows its plan the moment they see it. So it's very irrational to demand mechanical benefits because your plan is bad.

So maybe CC will rise armour class? We need to balace it...faster running is good more in PvE than PvP.

Mechanics isn't broken. It's just very specific. Not really realistic, and still not balanced enough, but it works. Some may like it, some not, but you can't say it's broken. CC chars can do pvp, bursters can do pvp, snipers and energy snipers can do pvp. Hell, even a flamer boy can do pvp. All you need is getting a grasp of what works and what not. If your friend made a CC char and went for critical chance, then yeah, his build was broken and bursting was the only thing to fix it. But it was fault of not understanding the game mechanics.
+
And lastly, next time you use the word realism to justify any mechanic change demands, remind yourself that it's realistic that guns beat fists. So better forget realism because it simply blows the context out of window. Realism is only good for creating immersion.

And i though Fallout is about immersion and climate. Also lets not justify with "its working" ...because its obvious...game don't crash =P
But "working" dont mean "works: as should/good"...not to mention obvious "its working...for me =]" -.-

Fuck it People...i done with this forum over game balance...to much "hard-headed wannabe pross" here whose vission of gameplay is just about some stupid PK duels for loot.
Game should be about "chances" like whole fallout series...where everything can go wrong even for gods (a.k.a. 95% was always flag example of max chances)...but game developed to paper, scissors and rock mechanics leaving us only with few viable classes...and every class has only one-two good builds...because all other build are just steamrolled. This also force players to Alting...i would like to se IP-lock so we could have only one player but hahahahaha...i know how those "Mechanic Pros and Hardcore build creators" would whine about this.
So we have immersion players who play balanced characters...who suffer from "more than occasional" "cheat player builds" PvP oriented with few alts for crafting, doctor. And what other chance do You have other than doing the same when game become balanced for such gameplay?...and i will not speak about forced Real-time gampley to avoid PK's ...half of fallout soul and climate is TB...! MAybe karma system and city patrols will help players who want to play TB and not get killed frequently by BG heros.
Pathetic and seriusly harmfull for game.

Either way Regards.

LittleBoy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 682
  • Čučoriedka
    • View Profile
Re: Open beta 2.5 test server launched.
« Reply #102 on: December 29, 2013, 16:26 »
its everything about rock / paper / scissors , but.. sometimes skilled players can break the rules. Scissors beat paper and avoid rocks ...
I would not say it better.

Wesan

  • Developer
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2327
  • The one who smiled.
    • View Profile
Re: Open beta 2.5 test server launched.
« Reply #103 on: December 29, 2013, 17:45 »
And throwers are mushrooms... :D

koekto

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 250
  • Choose your choose
    • View Profile
Re: Open beta 2.5 test server launched.
« Reply #104 on: January 06, 2014, 23:16 »
What's wrong with the server? Lies?