Author Topic: Meta Changes For Weapons  (Read 546 times)

Alaestor

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 388
    • View Profile
Meta Changes For Weapons
« on: September 09, 2018, 09:21 »
Point of suggestion is to change the "meta" to enable people to experiment with new builds, give variety to people. Specifically towards bursters to effect Town Control and Close Combat fights.

This is a 3 (or 4?) year long session and I bet some people are bored by now. Something simple like this could spice up the game and wake up those people who love to concept builds.

Burst Weapons
  • Avenger Minigun dmg from 12-15 to 11-15
  • Avenger Minigun ammo amount from 120 to 160
  • 40 bullets per burst remain the same
  • HK P90c dmg from 16-21 to 18-23
  • Ammo remains same
  • Light Support Weapon Range increased from 35 to 40
  • XL70E3 dmg from 36-42 to 35-40
  • Ammo remains same
  • Range increased from 40 to 42
  • G11E range increased from 35 to 40

Aim shots

  • Plasma Rifle dmg from 30-65 to 25-70
  • Ammo remains same
  • Laser Rifle (Ext. Cap) dmg from 40-60 to 45-70
  • Ammo remains same
  • Range remains same
  • Sniper Rifle range increased from 50 to 52
  • Ammo remains same
  • Gauss Rifle range increased from 50 to 52
  • Pulse rifle range increased from 30 to 40
  • Gauss Pistol from 3 AP per shot to 2 AP
  • Bozar (Single shot damage) increased from 35-55 to 45-65
  • Bozar (Single shot range) increased from 50 to 55
  • Bozar (Burst mode) remain unchanged


Throwing
  • Frag Grenade damage from 80-100 to 75-95
  • Plasma Grenade damage from 80-100 to 85-105

Starting with Burster weapon changes. Currently the P90c is heavily outweighed by the Avenger Minigun, with these changes the P90 will have next to equal combat potential against Avenger minigun. With P90c being possibly better in close combat fights it would make for interesting builds and something "fresh" to play with and against.

With these changes you would see LSW TC builds come into the scene while not outweighing the Avenger Minigun. Both have their advantages and disadvantages

XL being given a range boost it makes the weapon more viable and interesting for Town Control fights. Certain players have already been using it as it is but it's not strong enough currently and with LSW changes it would simply get overthrown as a weapon. This make it's really balanced and I could easily see people creating builds for it.

Aimshots next. Laser rifle (Ext. Cap) has always been the competitor against Sniper Rifle, and with LSW and XL receiving a range boost the sniper rifle was also given something to compensate slightly for that, and so the Laser rifle was also given extra damage, I'm sure with these changes a lot of people will be trying the Laser Rifle (Ext. Cap) in Town Control after buffs, it relies more on positioning and good leading to give it more value than the Sniper Rifle but surely worth it.

Pulse Rifle given extra range to make it a valuable T4 weapon for long range Combat.
Gauss Rifle given extra range to compensate for Sniper rifles bonus.
Gauss pistol is now seen as something more than a sniper rifle with bonuses. Snipers can specifically build for this item and make it as valuable as a Gauss Rifle.

Bozar given more range and single fire damage would definitely bring out the true fire power in single shot Big Gun Snipers. Something people haven't yet experienced due to its damage being lower than gauss rifle with an AP cost bigger than my D**k.

Frag grenades over plasma grenades haven't been a choice, it's a must. With these changes both will be equal.

If you disagree with this, explain your thoughts. A simple "-1" wont cut it.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 09:53 by Alaestor »

S.T.A.L.K.E.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 840
    • View Profile
Re: Meta Changes For Weapons
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2018, 10:22 »
More range for backstabbing sumbitches LSW sneakers?  >:(

My Youtube Channel
Fronte Renesco

Alaestor

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 388
    • View Profile
Re: Meta Changes For Weapons
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2018, 10:25 »
More range for backstabbing sumbitches LSW sneakers?  >:(
Hard counterplayed by CAWS sneaks
(Worst case scenario just up the weight on LSW from 9071 to 11071).
« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 10:29 by Alaestor »

Dequ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1534
    • View Profile
Re: Meta Changes For Weapons
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2018, 10:38 »
Stalker if there is XL/Caw Sneak around you will be so easily countered if you are lsw sneak. So it is like Aco said.

I can already see lot of new interesting builds after these few changes. Like gauss pistol fast shot spammer in TC fights, Xl Ranger burster builds for long range fights, LSW as a secondary weapon for tc, P90 dungeon burster builds.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 10:44 by Dequ »

Boon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
Re: Meta Changes For Weapons
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2018, 12:00 »
BOI

Plasma Rifle dmg from 30-65 to 25-70

So you want to change Plasma Rifle? Great!

You want to change the highest damage T3 gun...
You want to change the highest damage T3 gun with 8 roll for no logical reason...
You want to change it...

……….by increasing its maximum possible damage?

-1 this suggestion
-1 to you
-1 to everyone you've ever met
If you have a dog, -1 to that too.

-1


Only good change to plasma rifle is removing its crit roll entirely
can get get 100 likes please



More -1's here
Burst weapons have enough range.
Laser Rifle does not need buff.
Sniper Rifle range... eh.
Pulse Rifle range... lol, nerf plasma crit roll instead.
Gauss pistol has low cost already, nub.
Bozar single range -> +1 even if I don't see anyone actually using it for that.
Frag grenade damage -> REEEEEEEEEEEEE
Plasma grenade damage -> Still going to be meh.
Point of suggestion is to change the "meta" to enable people to experiment with new builds, give variety to people.
By changing weapons people use anyway, yes good. I get it though.



P.S nerf caws and plasma rifle
Wasteland is still harsh.
Plasma Rifle is overpowered.
H&K CAWS is overpowered.

Veki

  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Meta Changes For Weapons
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2018, 14:42 »
Boon why plasma rifle anoying you? do you ever seen plasma rifle in TC?Remember range is 35, nobody wanna snipe on burster range or to be meta of rocketiers and snipers... In whole wasteland in fallout universe plasma rifle represent top gun who only care elite soldiers...same logic why other weapons to have critical rolle?

If you boost aim weapon like you say you will get more disbalance, plasma rifle will be even more forgoten because you boost laser rifle and other sniper weapons and nobody gonna bring in TC, and that boost on plasma rifle is not gonna change anything it will stay TB spamer type weapon...in other hand you dont get anything with this boost, how that gonna change builds?

I agree with plasma granates who are more expencive to find and craft ,need more boost like to deal to 50-70 dmg to character who have CA mk2 and 2 toughnes perks.

Interesting change for LSW will be to have 35 range burst mode , and to have single aim mode 40 range...so you can have Big gun sniper little boozar, not to have more range, because if you wanna simular buid you have XL who is small gun. thats gonna be interesting to make new build.

Caws stats need to give to pancore and bring back into game like t4 weapon.
Caws and cbt shootgun need to rebalnce like give them 5 action points to burst and lower dmg.

New weapons can bring new builds.
For example you can make incenerator from Fallout las vegas...take animation for character who hold plasma rifle weapon(m60, LSW, et) make 35 range, make hexfield of granate. make this weapon deal fire dmg like 4 ap per shoot(5 without brof)
o antimaterial rifle big gun sniper who will have 60 hex range big dmg dealer, but to use single no aim shoot  7-8 action points...one shoot heavy sniper
.... In this game you make character around weapons to bring new builds you need to bring new weapons.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 14:54 by Veki »

Moss

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
    • View Profile
Re: Meta Changes For Weapons
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2018, 18:03 »
Aleastor, if you want something new and good - replace picture of guns like Steyer for XL or Bozar (or something from Fallout Tactics idk) instead of LSW.
 As variant to realize and boost PVP is set higher chance to craft stated weapons (idk maybe) cause +4 range +6 or more crit chance LSW its already dangerous weapon on tc!

Moss

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
    • View Profile
Re: Meta Changes For Weapons
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2018, 18:05 »
But not so comfortable for kill and stay alive ofc :D (but maybe hypo can support you in important moment).

Moss

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
    • View Profile
Re: Meta Changes For Weapons
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2018, 18:06 »
Anyway Aleastor you are = Good!

El_matador

  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Re: Meta Changes For Weapons
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2018, 21:06 »
When you are going to change the range of weapon take into account possible bonuses. In my point of view 44 range LSW and 46 range XL will be too OP. LSW is doing pretty well with critbursters as you can find a good bonused LSW easier than avenger. Also I dont think P90 is outweighted by avenger because of -1ap. It's just a different styles (more dmg or shoot more often). Actually there is some ppl on server who use P90mostly and they are doing pretty well.
Totally disagree with EW changes except Pulse Rifle, but, it probably needs not range improvement but -ap and like 10-12 base roll. As we got two tier 4 single shots EW (Dont take into account Alien, it's pretty well balanced I think) they have to be used in different conditions to have some weapon variety. Turbo for long, pulse for close/middle. Nowadays pulse rifle is worse than turbo in every aspect, dont think it has to be discussed. It's an axiom.
Gauss Rifle needs 8 base roll or base range more than sniper rifle cos mostly when you are using gauss rifle you will loose duel to 13roll/4 range sniper rifle. And the damage is not so high to compensate it, it's like lazer rifle actually when you make a bypass.
Agree with bozar, nades, G11

Alaestor

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 388
    • View Profile
Re: Meta Changes For Weapons
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2018, 07:37 »
Burst weapons have enough range.
I totally agree, they do have enough range. That wasn't the point of this suggestion. Look, the current meta puts rockets as top tier for TC and leaves no room for variety in bursters as if they aren't already weak in Town Control. It's been like that for almost 8 years now. Changes to this would give a lot more room for a wide variety of builds to be used 'viably'. Does that make sense to you?
Laser Rifle does not need buff
It doesn't, but with SG Sniper rifle buffs and bursters being a more dominant force in Town Control they would need buffs. Right now the Laser Rifle in Town control is seen as the alternative to Sniper Rifle and with a very small difference it's become personal preference but with these changes it would be a playstyle preference.
Pulse Rifle range... lol, nerf plasma crit roll instead.
I'd appreciate it if you didn't refer to Plasma when we're talking about something else. Pulse Rifle needs a buff to be seen and used in bigger scale fights, it's clearly a balanced weapon even if it's range was boosted by 10.
Gauss pistol has low cost already, nub.
Lower AP cost is necessary for it to be classified as T4. Plus with SG Sniper/EW/Gauss rifle buffs, it would make the weapon need something to compete.
Bozar single range -> +1 even if I don't see anyone actually using it for that.
I suggested a single fire damage buff so it could be used as an actual aim shot weapon.
Frag grenade damage -> REEEEEEEEEEEEE
Plasma grenade damage -> Still going to be meh.
Variety. Frags been used all season.
By changing weapons people use anyway, yes good. I get it though.
It's simple minded to see it that way. Point was to change meta, if there is more LSW sneaks there's more CAWs sneaks, if there is more CAWs sneaks there will be more less HP snipers which means more crit chance and AP resulting in more shots which means rocketeers/bursters would have more success with anti critical perk. Do you see how a small change can have a huge effect? Point of it all is to have a change and something fresh with changes that take less than 20 minutes for developers to do I believe.
When you are going to change the range of weapon take into account possible bonuses. In my point of view 44 range LSW and 46 range XL will be too OP. LSW is doing pretty well with critbursters as you can find a good bonused LSW easier than avenger.
I disagree completely. Nothing is OP if everything is OP. 56 range sniper rifle, 44 range rocket, 44 range LSW, 46 range XL. If anything it would help play against large swarms who use rockets, there is very little counterplay at the moment and with a portion of them switching to bursters it gives a higher chance for an outplay to be made.

邪悪

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
    • View Profile
Re: Meta Changes For Weapons
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2018, 08:14 »
Plasma Rifle dmg from 30-65 to 25-70
Right now, whenever you hold a Random Rifle, press "A" button and click on the enemy, a complete randomness happens, because it shoots randomburgers with 5 layers:
1) You can either hit or miss;
2) If you hit, you deal N damage from min-max;
3) You can either crit or not crit;
4) If you crit, you make a crit roll;
5) If you roll some effect, enemy rolls against it.

You can simply waste your AP if you're unlucky, or you can make a fatal shot and instawin, if you're lucky.

You suggest to increase damage spread, thus make 2nd layer even more random. Why? 25-70? So max damage is almost x3 from min damage. So you can shoot someone 3 times and other guy can shoot once and you both will deal the same damage simply because he was more lucky? FOnline combat mechanic is already all about randomness, why you want to make it even worse?
The same about avenger, 12-15 -> 11-15, why not 12-14? I realize that the more max damage is, the more damage potential it has due to damage reduction from armor, but increasing randomness in multiplayer game with PvP is never good. Randomness is good only for players, who don't know what they are doing, so they always have a change to succeed or for games, where devs don't know how to make primitive combat more diverse or they hide balance issues with randomness. FOnline has randomness simply because of Fallout, just like perks, skills and SPECIAL, so there's 0% chance that devs will fix this game design flaw, but they still can at least tone it down by decreasing random factor. And increasing damage spread works in completely opposite way, thus making the game worse.

Veki

  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Meta Changes For Weapons
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2018, 08:49 »
Main problem here you say burst weapon dont have range, sniper dont have range...You need to ask yourself why i think this weapons have low range and you will see root of problem. You all measure on rocket launcher like etalon. If you only change range of rocket launcher from 40 to 35, all burst weapons, sniper weapons have now more range.True or false? For me that is logic solution. Why to rework all T3 weapons gonna take a lot of time of developers, we all know this project is fun base and that people work in free time and is better to work on new content to not recycle old stuff. I remember one guy on one server was trying to change everything because super catle proad to give balance to game, like super cattle proad give big electric dmg in eyes making HTH sneakers op...simple solution was make to T4 less avaible, don't open pandora box. usualy people dont focus on stuff like that. Only gun who dont have enough range here in game is pulse rifle who is equlent of laser rifle in T4 version.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 09:12 by Veki »

Boon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
Re: Meta Changes For Weapons
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2018, 09:25 »
Boon why plasma rifle anoying you? do you ever seen plasma rifle in TC?
It's OP! Why can't anybody see that?!
Also yes, I have seen it in TC.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't refer to Plasma when we're talking about something else.
My response to that is:
It's simple minded to see it that way.

Making every weapon OP or viable in every situation is the opposite of variety.

Sniper dude: "Woah good thing I have this long-range sniper gun-"
LSW random: "haha lol"
Wasteland is still harsh.
Plasma Rifle is overpowered.
H&K CAWS is overpowered.