Author Topic: Suggestions to game mechanics  (Read 5531 times)

Бразильскии

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Suggestions to game mechanics
« on: May 09, 2016, 02:38 »
During the season's development, with addition of new features and by the technology progression itself, some game features, resources and items have become from rarely used to useless. Probably there are new players whom never used one or two game features at the current state the season is.

I also believe at least Tier 0 should be reworked, slightly increasing damage by 3-5dmg, not compromising  balance to the next post-wipe season and other but I won't enter in this discussion here. Going straight to the subject, here I mention couple mechanics that could be reworked:

Бразильскии

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Re: Suggestions to game mechanics
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2016, 02:38 »
● Skill: Scavenger!

Scavenging is one of the most interesting ideas in the game. During t0/t1/t2 progression, players used to scavenge trash/boxes/barrels or pkers hunt scavengers
to rob their scavenge goods. Nowadays players start farming rogues/khans/remnants, mass decraft +drugs +money +cathedral holo +toxic maps.

I remember lotta newcomers used to praise the game because of the scavenging mechanics. It used to make players emerge deep in the gameplay role.
Now, a whole skill and a gameplay role is useless.

What to do:

-- Increase amount of scavenged items in:

- After 100 skill points in Scavenging, 1/15(%) to give double loot;
- After 200 skill points in Scavenging, 2/15(%) to give triple loot;
- At 300 skill points in Scavenging, 3/15(%) to give quadruple loot.

-- Plus, add chance to find battered gear (damaged weapons and/or armors)

- After 100 skill points in Scavenging, 1/20(%) chance to find t0 or t1 battered gear;
- After 200 skill points in Scavenging, 1/20(%) chance to find t0 or t1 or t2 battered gear;
- At 300 skill points in Scavenging, 1/20(%) chance to find t0 or t1 or t2 or t3 battered gear.

Бразильскии

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Re: Suggestions to game mechanics
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2016, 02:38 »
● Skill: Steal!

Stealing is a skill that involes a whole role that current gameplay policy's killed with the safezone 'Players can't steal or attack you'.
This completely killed the skill.

Thieves should be encouraged to steal even in The Hub and such and they could have a chance to leave safe towns somehow (not receiving a hitkill from guards).

The more roles, the more stuff to do.

Бразильскии

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Re: Suggestions to game mechanics
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2016, 02:39 »
● Skill: Barter

Players can buy slight cheaper stuff, even from Shopkeepers.

- After 100 skill points in Barter, 3(%) discount if player buy more than 5 pile of items;
E.g.: In a player shopkeeper, I select:

- 40x jet
- 3 XL
- 15 Psycho
- 1 Map to Depot
- 40 Buffouts

The whole cost would be 55000 caps. If I offer 55000*0,97= 53350 caps, the shopkeeper will accept.

- After 200 skill points in Barter, 5(%) discount if player buy more than 5 pile of items;
E.g: Same example.
The whole cost would be 55000 caps. If I offer 55000*0,95= 52250 caps, the shopkeeper will accept.


- At 300 skill points in Barter,  7(%) discount if player buy more than 5 pile of items.
E.g: Same example.
The whole cost would be 55000 caps. If I offer 55000*0,93= 51150 caps, the shopkeeper will accept.

Бразильскии

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Re: Suggestions to game mechanics
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2016, 02:39 »
● General items mechanics:

-- Add throwing to Primitive Tool so we can throw hand-made axes like a cool american native 8)
-- Set molotov as fire damage, reduce damage or remove pyromaniac effect on this particular weapon. Explode is just ridiculous.
-- In 2013 it has been decided to disable the need of a Lighter to light up cigarrettes, but as more items are useful economy gets more involving, more stuff to do with loot.
The Lighter should be refilled with Rot Gut.
-- System game broadcast: "Enclave's arrived at SanFran docks, Cris Wright is buying all kind of weapons, (...)" should have a Radio equipped with.
-- Double the amount of available shopkeepers to spice the economy.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 13:44 by Бразильскии »

Feather

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Re: Suggestions to game mechanics
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2016, 06:19 »
● Skill: Steal!

Stealing is a skill that involes a whole role that current gameplay policy's killed with the safezone 'Players can't steal or attack you'.
This completely killed the skill.

Thieves should be encouraged to steal even in The Hub and such and they could have a chance to leave safe towns somehow (not receiving a hitkill from guards).

The more roles, the more stuff to do.

Thief never was a really enjoyable class to play, extremely one-sided and heavily abused wherever possible.
What ultimately killed the class here on FO2 was not the safe zones. It was giving the NCR faction the ability to put anyone they want on the NPC guards KOS list. That sort of power shouldn't be in player hands – at least not without earning it somehow.
But I agree with your safe zones argument anyway. I'd say the only 100% troll/steal/abuz/townburst-free zone should be JT and the respawn areas.

However, reverting the blacklist ability of NCR and allowing steal in semi guarded towns alone will not make thievery interesting or challenging. It will just be the same as before - A troll class that every player just hates. Then the circlejerk would just begin again, people will whine about thieves until devs apply the next KISS solution.(Or KILL, rather)

So yeah, I thought about this often since the time I played a thief in season 2, I guess I'll just spill my ideas here:

TL;DR Make thievery a real and challenging part of the game, a fun role to play, that's not just about getting stuff cheap.
Problem 1: Char development experience and PvE
PvE with a thief? AS a thief? ...[cricket sounds].
Currently if you want to level up a thief you can do that with anything BUT thievery related activities. Stealing from NPCs (if even possible - completely deactivated in many cases!) gives retarded low amounts of XP and worthless loot. The steal skill has been reduced to a nuisance of a PvP only feature.

Solutions:
  • Rework experience gained from stealing. Keep the concept of xp increment x2 on successful consecutive steal actions (Stealing multiple items in one attempt.), but also make it that the amount of xp gained on successful steal attempts increases with the character's level. So for example on lvl 1 you gain 50xp for a succesful steal, but on level 10 that same action would give you 500xp. (Numbers pulled from my ass, proper math needs to be applied here ofc.)
  • Set up different tiers of difficulty for the various NPCs. Difficulty determined by demand of % in steal skill and a general char's level requirement (set linear up to really high levels). Higher difficulty should yield better loot in NPCs inventories. That way the character will have to grow and improve as a thief and can look forward to harder PvE challenges with better rewards.
  • Add thievery related quests/repeatables/mini events. Quests could mostly be given by the Thieves Guild faction (more on that below). Mini events could be similar to the already existing "A hooker from XY made a big pile of cash recently".
  • Maybe: Make steal a progressive skill like barter.
  • Maybe: Add thievery themed achievements as additional long term goal for the character.


Problems 2,3,4: Endless alts abuse/Unfair risk-reward relation/Trolling
I remember some discussion at the beginning of 1st or 2nd season where some dude said it's super easy to abuse the thief skill. You just level up a bunch of alts. Since you could get decent enough steal within the first 3-5 levels making such an endless swarm of alts is no problem. If one fails and gets jailed (or blacklisted in case of NCR), just take the next one. Naturally and rightfully this is seen as abuse, since a player doing that has to risk absolutely nothing. This was also a big issue in NCR the only place where thievery was even playable.
These problems are where my idea about the Thieves Guild originally spawned from.

Solution:
  • Implement the original Thieve's Guild NPC faction (Sorry, Bar.) The role of this faction is that of a group of underground criminals, spies and social engineers. Like a true guild they hold the "rights" and the monopoly to theft activity, controlled by agents bribing town guards and milita all across the wasteland.
  • Since this faction is not a war driven faction like NCR, BoS or the Enclave, players don't actually join it. They can be part of any other faction while still working for the TG.
  • To gain the right to steal from players, a thief has to earn a positive reputation with the guild first. To gain reputation points the thief must engage in abovementioned PvE activities. Simple stealing yields the least rep points, going through a major quest line given by the guild yields most.
  • Basic requirement to even interact with the guild is character level 12 (or maybe even higher) and also a basic positive reputation.
  • Passing a certain amount of positive reputation will then unlock the ability to steal from players in towns. (In PvP or base locations it can be always allowed.) The guild master is letting the guards that are in his pocket know there's a new thief in town and they'll look the other way.
  • However, not all guards will be associated with the guild. The new challenge for the thief will be to figure out which guards are on their side. This could be done by adding a few specific lines to the guard's dialog pool which will be found by repeatedly talking to them.
  • As long as the reputation with the guild stays over value X, the player can steal as often and as much as they want. But there will of course be ways you can lose reputation too:
    • Trying to steal from players when it's not approved by the guild yet.
    • Getting spotted and killed or jailed by a guard.(Depending on the current town's configuration.)
    • Getting killed by the player you most recently stole or tried to steal from. (Red *thief* mechanics)
    • Failing quests given by the TG.
    • Killing or stealing from any associate of the guild.(Severe rep penalty here.)
    • Planting explosives on other players. (Severe rep penalty here, town bombing is just troll shit and doesn't suit the guild's business at all.)
  • Players don't earn reputation from player-steals, only from PvE activities.
  • Maybe: Additionally the risk involved in theft activities could be increased by enhancing the idea of guard bribery. Guards associated with the guild have to be found AND bribed by the player themselves. Guard allegiance to the individual thief gets lost again after x times of stealing and also can get lost immediately in case of the thief failing.


Бразильскии:
I have more to say on the other things you posted, but I'll leave it at this for now.
If you don't mind, I'll sticky your thread and it shall be the place to drop bigger mechanics related ideas for the next season and discuss them properly. Seems to be the right time for this, considering all those "Give us ur concept"-threads the devs started.
If it gets too chaotic, we can split stuff off later.

Бразильскии

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Re: Suggestions to game mechanics
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2016, 19:21 »
Fine by me. I'd love to contribute.

I really liked all your ideas, I just fear how long would take to implement them in the way they've been presented, because of scripting/dialog planning/writing.

Thus, I commented over some of your post and, in the hope we all may find a consensus of easy to be implemented, matching what's doable under current circumstances (few crew involving on the game dev.) without losing the first proposal which is refreshing some game concepts.

Solutions:
1. Rework experience gained from stealing. Keep the concept of xp increment x2 on successful consecutive steal actions (Stealing multiple items in one attempt.), but also make it that the amount of xp gained on successful steal attempts increases with the character's level. So for example on lvl 1 you gain 50xp for a succesful steal, but on level 10 that same action would give you 500xp. (Numbers pulled from my ass, proper math needs to be applied here ofc.)

1. Agreed.

2. Set up different tiers of difficulty for the various NPCs. Difficulty determined by demand of % in steal skill and a general char's level requirement (set linear up to really high levels). Higher difficulty should yield better loot in NPCs inventories. That way the character will have to grow and improve as a thief and can look forward to harder PvE challenges with better rewards.

2. I believe critters don't have levels but AC could be used instead to read as "critter level". Not a limitant factor in matter of scripting (not to implement critter level).

Add thievery related quests/repeatables/mini events. Quests could mostly be given by the Thieves Guild faction (more on that below). Mini events could be similar to the already existing "A hooker from XY made a big pile of cash recently".
Implement the original Thieve's Guild NPC faction (Sorry, Bar.) The role of this faction is that of a group of underground criminals, spies and social engineers. Like a true guild they hold the "rights" and the monopoly to theft activity, controlled by agents bribing town guards and milita all across the wasteland. (...)

Maybe: Make steal a progressive skill like barter.

If implemented, it would give opportunity to players invest in sneaking and/or combat skills.

Regarding TG:

There should have quests done for thieves to be accepted in several different levels, like spionage & theft stuff. It would be really cool to see something for thieves/sneakers only as is with that BoS quest we must explode an Enclave harbor. Also not hard to implement, just add a line to show up with skillpoint restriction like when training professions. I think thieves could play important role with main factions. And not just because a matter os easiness. It's easier to write extra lines of dialogs and scripts for characters and roles that are already done. E.g.: Thieves/Sneakers could perform quests in different ways (e.g.: Explode Enclave Harbor, steal Vertibird Parts). The corrupted/bribed guards idea sounds really cool.

If a faction would be implemented:

+The Robin Hood quest could be adapted to a questline starter.
+The shady Gecko Express Co. (to achieve Parthfinder) could also be incoroporated.

Bonita

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Re: Suggestions to game mechanics
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2016, 23:57 »
Thievery in style of take item not touching pocket is quite funny



and higher skill = longer time and bit easier maze :F


For me interesting could be endless repairing using same items as material - but you can't fix epic CA with just ca, blue for blue etc (way to exchange not needed bonus for those are used)

Gabr1el

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Re: Suggestions to game mechanics
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2016, 12:15 »
I was curious is command for reseting gun skill for cc200 chars still working
and can it reset BG and EW to 99 , also what was that command :P

If not I make suggestion to implement i guess , one click and char gone
seems a bit too much ...

Sorry in advance if already mentioned but i tried finding that changelog
and I just couldn't find it after 30-60 mins ....

Feather

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Re: Suggestions to game mechanics
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2016, 19:36 »
what was that command :P

Command is ~resetsg (just takes away skillpoints down to 110%, points are not returned for using elsewhere.)

And yeah, hopefully char respec/reroll will become more flexible in the future...

Леон

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Re: Suggestions to game mechanics
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2016, 16:58 »
remove lock hex with furniture on base


Freeaccount

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Re: Suggestions to game mechanics
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2016, 08:30 »
remove lock hex with furniture on base


Wow, that's mine ;D

Dillinger

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Re: Suggestions to game mechanics
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2017, 09:34 »
Lockpicking:

add experience for lockpicking outside guarded towns and private locations- 50 exp


Gambling:

100% - +1 to crit chance
200% - +2 to crit chance
300% - +3 to crit chance

can increased by:
- playing card-game in Gecko(little increase)
- playing dice-game in random encounter with random npc(medium increase)
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 15:29 by Dillinger »
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

LagMaster

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Re: Suggestions to game mechanics
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2017, 01:52 »
Some mechanic suggestions:
1. Miniguns need 1-2s of wind-up time(no more 1hexing with miniguns).
2. Steal: make steal a progressive and interactive skill:
You can steal from someone in 3 ways:
Active steal
Dialog steal/scam
Combat steal
Active steal is the straight forward skill we have today, except that you can only use it on NPCs until having 50 skill points, After 50 you can use it on players outside towns and with town NPCs and you can also Dialog steal: Use scam lines or perform distracting action(like dancing) to steal from NPCs, change to fail and to get caught are separate and you can try to schmooze yourself out of it/ After 100 you can use steal on Players in town and you unlock combat steal: when using the skill in combat or attacking with close combat you can try to steal your opponents spare ammo, like all the ammo in his inventory and upgrade it after 150 to just plain steal weapon!
3. Sneak/Stealth:
Once you sneak you are invisible, period. Only those that look just at you from 10 hexes can see you, but you can be detected, thing that will automatically place you back in visible mode. Also add silencers that will not make you leave invi if you use it+ attacking while sneaking/barely detected will make all your shots do extra crit damage/effect, but cause 1 extra AP.
4. Bleed: New effect(similar to poison, but can be cured with doctor) You: A)lose a shit ton of HP as a DOT, B) Instantly die when the clock reaches 0(Under 20s you will not be able to run and under 10s you will have blind effect). Low chance on normal bullets and guns, but high chance on all blades and high impact/shrapnel projectiles.
5. Trade: All vendors in some regions sell cheap and expensive misc items that have a different price in other region, Even at Barter 0 you can make some profit
Remember skycast and Rascal, abusing power never ends well.

Dreyn

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Re: Suggestions to game mechanics
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2017, 20:10 »
I would like to share with you some of my own ideas and opinions about the game mechanics and other things.
I'll try to be as brief as possible but will also provide some justification to this point of view of mine.

Suggestions to change some things that already exist:

1. Economy - the ammount of caps that traders have should at least be doubled or tripled, or traders should have faster respawn rate of caps.
(Current state is that ppl run from town to town farming traders to get only few thousand caps from them. For example 3 Toxic Caves runs = about 20k caps (if you know how to barter, for what, where etc. You also have to be lucky - most traders can already be without cash, cause some other player has taken it. Also - some implants are worth over 2 million, so if somebody wants to do it the hard way - by farming caps, its very slow. To slow. If it would be raised, there would be more possibility of well equipped and organized actions).

2. Houses - some of them are occupied by ppl that has stopped playing this game a long time ago. It would be a good idea to implement a "rent" for the house. If somebody is not paying the rent for the house, their stuff should be put back to the houseseller (like with FLC auctions), and they would loose the house. The rent should be weekly or monthly (maybe quarterly). This way active players would be able to actually have a chance to buy a house.

Suggestions to implement some new things (if possible):

1. Random encounters - make more maps for example with abandoned shelters on the desert (ofc lootable). Some variation to the most common desert would be nice :)
It would be also cool if we could explore maybe a broken vault or some empty houses, malls, gas stations, some hidden prepper-like bunkers or basements, maybe the ruins of some abandoned military posts etc. (not only the ruins of burned cities...).

2. Super trader - make one trader that would sell only T4 weapons, armor and ammunition (even for very, very high prices). He or she should have the lowest respawn rate from all traders. This way getting T4 would still be hard but it would maybe create a situation in which it would become more common, so people would use them more often during pvp fights and other activities. Right now they only lay in lockers and "gather dust" and its very true (most of the time). To be fair with regard to people that would still craft them, they should be able to get bonuses more often. This way buying would mean "clean T4", crafting would mean (at least more) "bonus T4".

3. New event - Enclave supply drop. Make an event where Enclave Vertibird crashes on the desert and drops some boxes with military loot. Enclave soldiers keep guard over the wreckage. Players spawn either on left or right side of the map. Those that will spawn on the same side (for example left) can't shoot each other (members of their - left team) but they must cooperate with each other to defeat the other team and also kill the Enclave guards to get the loot. This would force more cooperation, not only make all ppl fight against all. It could be also cool if for example Brotherhood Paladins could come to fight the Enclave after for example 15 min. timer would pass and the chests would still be not looted. It would make more pressure to finish off the other team faster.

4. Mail / postage system - if possible (not sure about that), make a system that would allow to send somebody a message (for example holodisk) or a package (an item). For example via Gecko Express. Many online games have this thing implemented (WoW, LotRo etc.).

5. Crafting an implant - it would be also cool for example if by gathering tons of materials it would be possible to craft a random (or not) implant. This should be only possible in S-F (Shi or Hubologists). Best choice would be Shi, cause they have the closed location with Emperor supercomputer. Only this Emperor should be able to do it. You would have to gather many, many electronic parts, microcircuits, maybe even energy transformers to do it. Ofc - pvp allowed in S-F, so you would have to guard the location with your team. It could also be a timer based event.

This is basically it. I sometimes have other small ideas but I wanted to share the ones that I thought of as best.

Thank you.