Author Topic: Why are some craftables useless?  (Read 1346 times)

gh0un

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Why are some craftables useless?
« on: April 03, 2017, 18:17 »
There are so many items where it makes absolutely no sense to craft them because they are farmed much more quickly from enemy encounters.
This includes pretty much all kinds of ammunition and drugs.

A few examples:

120 iron ore and 120 minerals for 1k 5mm AP ammunition?
160 iron ore and 120 minerals for 100 ap rockets?
Dont even get me started on drugs.

Why those excessive numbers for some of these craftables?
You could cut them in half (or cut them by four) and it would still be more efficient to farm them from enemy encounters.

Is there a reason as to why these numbers are kept in this useless state?
Or is it because we dont want people scavenging for those things and want them to always have to kill enemy encounters for that?

Can a dev give some thoughts on this?
Ive played this game a few years ago and i remember those numbers being the exact same back then aswell.
Why have these numbers never been adjusted?

Szelus

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Re: Why are some craftables useless?
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2017, 19:39 »
They are used also in decraft, decraft shotgun ammo for gunpowder to craft grenades is useful. Also this gamę is useless without farming, farming for life :)

Warpig

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Re: Why are some craftables useless?
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2017, 11:17 »
From my sight, server is overflooded by useless or easily farmable items. As i wrote before some time in different topic. Too many weapons, armors, ammo, caps and everything with no reason to craft basic stuff.  But its for longer discussion and some bigger changes.

jammaplaya

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Re: Why are some craftables useless?
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2017, 10:36 »
the economy here basically works as follows:

1) You get AP rockets or other high value junk

2) every 20 or 30 mins (I can't remember) the shopkeepers on the server respawn caps in their inventory

3) you sell the rockets for the caps on multiple characters scattered around different shops very quickly

So basically, if rockets were cheap to make there would be nothing balancing out a players ability to do this, which is the best, if not only way to get caps in this game. It all comes down to either farming the rockets (or other sellable 'resource') by farming them or purchasing from players who farmed them, or by making them, either by farming the materials or buying from players. In that sense, the materials to craft, or the time spent farming, or caps spent buying them from other players, is all balanced.

I wish they would remodel how caps are created, so you could get them when farming and fix the OP's curiosity and frustration with crafting balance, but they probably have fashioned their economy in this manner to prevent cheating. That's my guess anyways.

Father Anderson

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Re: Why are some craftables useless?
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2017, 11:53 »
the economy here basically works as follows:

1) You get AP rockets or other high value junk

2) every 20 or 30 mins (I can't remember) the shopkeepers on the server respawn caps in their inventory

3) you sell the rockets for the caps on multiple characters scattered around different shops very quickly

So basically, if rockets were cheap to make there would be nothing balancing out a players ability to do this, which is the best, if not only way to get caps in this game. It all comes down to either farming the rockets (or other sellable 'resource') by farming them or purchasing from players who farmed them, or by making them, either by farming the materials or buying from players. In that sense, the materials to craft, or the time spent farming, or caps spent buying them from other players, is all balanced.

I wish they would remodel how caps are created, so you could get them when farming and fix the OP's curiosity and frustration with crafting balance, but they probably have fashioned their economy in this manner to prevent cheating. That's my guess anyways.

Do you really think this would be a " broken " way to make caps?
First off, I believe the respawn timer for shopkeeper's cash is 1 hour. Second, they barely have beetwen 600 and 800 caps in their inventory at most ( With the expcetion of a few going as high as 1.2k caps and one having up to 2.1k caps ).

You'd also need to have a LOT and I mean a LOT of charachters if you want to cover up all the shopkeepers in the game ( There must be around 2-3 per cities if not more in some ). Can you imagine yourself loggin/trading/logging off and repeating that over 30 times every single hour?

Then there's also to take into consideration that there could be other players doing that also. So you'd never know if the shopkeeper isn't already empty.
Now let's say you still manage to have the dedication to log into every single char near a shopkeeper and be able to be the first one to trade without getting killed ( Which is VERY unlikely ). I've done some test runs and traded to every single trader in the game in one run. I got around 15-20k caps. For one hour of farming im pretty sure there's way better ways to make caps. Even if the respawn timer is 30 mins that's like 40k caps in 1 hour. I make just as much if not more farming geckos.

Also we're not talking about simply making it easy to craft but balancing it out. I mean look at the stats, they are incredibly low for the price and how tedious it is to gather those ressources...

Nobody even craft ammos anymore since tech has been unlocked and you can find good ammos way more in dungeons. So yeah, +1 for balancing ammo crafting a bit more.
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jammaplaya

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Re: Why are some craftables useless?
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2017, 12:33 »
Farming geckos comes with more risk, and less reward.

Why not try it and see how it works for yourself? Just the guarded towns is easily 400k caps per 8 hour day, while you do various other activities. I'm guessing 400k caps in gecko pelts would be difficult to accomplish in the same amount of time, or at least more tedious (doing zigzags on the worldmap sure gets old)

Not everyone is doing it, one or two people, and nobody can be online 24 hours a day. My point is that there is a limit to how often an individual can do this because of the high resource cost to craft AP rockets, low availability or time to farm. Some people do the same thing with moltov's if I remember correctly, but I could never figure out how they were making so many of them. My character Big Puns is a mutant designed around killing super mutants in turn based mode, so it was always easier for me just to farm rockets, but eventually when you have enough caps and become too efficient at draining your supply, it even pays to buy the AP rockets from other players vendors. There's profit to be made even if you're buying the AP rockets at 55 per if I remember correctly. Sell to NPC for 200 I believe.

It's the best way to make caps and I would say that it is broken to have the best way to make caps also be 100% risk free. I'm surprised more people aren't doing it really. I guess people are just plain bad at figuring out how to get rich. Either that or most people don't care about caps because there's nothing to spend that many caps on on this server except PvP gear.

Edit - I forgot to even mention that you get to cherry pick sweet items off the NPC vendors once in a while, like brand new avengers and combat armor mk2 recipes. Trade for AP rockets and sell on your own vendor for even more caps. I made 2 million caps in 5 days once, then got bored and stopped doing it for months. I haven't even logged in since probably August.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 12:37 by jammaplaya »

Milan

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Re: Why are some craftables useless?
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2017, 13:19 »
Well this shouldn't even be possible in the first place, I reported to the devs that shopkeeper spawn times in safe towns aren't random(like the seem to be in unsafe towns) and even after I was told it was fixed it still seems to be bugged.

gh0un

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Re: Why are some craftables useless?
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2017, 17:49 »
the economy here basically works as follows:

1) You get AP rockets or other high value junk

2) every 20 or 30 mins (I can't remember) the shopkeepers on the server respawn caps in their inventory

3) you sell the rockets for the caps on multiple characters scattered around different shops very quickly

So basically, if rockets were cheap to make there would be nothing balancing out a players ability to do this, which is the best, if not only way to get caps in this game. It all comes down to either farming the rockets (or other sellable 'resource') by farming them or purchasing from players who farmed them, or by making them, either by farming the materials or buying from players. In that sense, the materials to craft, or the time spent farming, or caps spent buying them from other players, is all balanced.

I wish they would remodel how caps are created, so you could get them when farming and fix the OP's curiosity and frustration with crafting balance, but they probably have fashioned their economy in this manner to prevent cheating. That's my guess anyways.

Lower the selling price for AP rockets. Problem solved.
Another item that could be abused this way? Lower its selling price aswell. Problem solved.

No reason to keep so many craftables in a miserable state, if there is such an easy fix.

jammaplaya

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Re: Why are some craftables useless?
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2017, 19:07 »
the economy here basically works as follows:

1) You get AP rockets or other high value junk

2) every 20 or 30 mins (I can't remember) the shopkeepers on the server respawn caps in their inventory

3) you sell the rockets for the caps on multiple characters scattered around different shops very quickly

So basically, if rockets were cheap to make there would be nothing balancing out a players ability to do this, which is the best, if not only way to get caps in this game. It all comes down to either farming the rockets (or other sellable 'resource') by farming them or purchasing from players who farmed them, or by making them, either by farming the materials or buying from players. In that sense, the materials to craft, or the time spent farming, or caps spent buying them from other players, is all balanced.

I wish they would remodel how caps are created, so you could get them when farming and fix the OP's curiosity and frustration with crafting balance, but they probably have fashioned their economy in this manner to prevent cheating. That's my guess anyways.

Lower the selling price for AP rockets. Problem solved.
Another item that could be abused this way? Lower its selling price aswell. Problem solved.

No reason to keep so many craftables in a miserable state, if there is such an easy fix.

If what I wrote was even the actual reasoning, which I doubt. More likely they just don't want people who can only craft not to have the best ammo. Beats me, I'm just a playa.