Author Topic: Brotherhood Embassy : Official ally with "Desert Wanderers" and "MUKHOSRANSK"  (Read 5042 times)

Gladwin

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I asked DW about their lore and acording to this
What "lore"? Who are you trying to fool? DW have no lore.
It is somewhere in the deeps of the forum,  barely somethink, but always. Check it, i did it once and i m to lazy to do it again.

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They're just another PK gang,
This game is about PK, and trully. Those who kill new players are really shits but ( no, i m not killing new player and i don't shot to those who aren't treat to me. yes i m following codex ) but i see no reason for someone to play idk how pacifistic if this isn't his way of playing( i basicly never saw someone who were playing ,,noble,, during my no fractions days. And this count basicly to everyone, even JTS. Maybe exept TH and UoBH) also ( No, BoS is not aiding Massive uber PK. If someone with reputation like that joined our ranks ( and hasn't been kicked yet) he have to follow rules)

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, killing people in the westland in the most lame way (by swarming) for loot and their own satisfaction.
https://imgflip.com/i/1p7o2n . If you have no numbers, you are not existing in reall PVP. TC, ares and stuff like. Everythink is beyond your posibilites. Tell stuff about outswarming: to NCR and they allies, BBS and their alies, and basicly to every aliance/fraction that have meaning in PVP.  You can make glow run and be outswarmed by basicly everyone at the surface. I m just pointing, i have no problem with everyones swarms. I just think this argument is weak. about loot and satisfaction. You can answer to it by yourself.

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Not mentioning NCR town raids
NCR isn't incarnation of goodness. If someone is hostile againt them this doesn't mean his evil incarnate ( no i m not insulting NCR, i have nothing againt them, we are  just following different ways.) war with NCR =/= being criminal. Same apply for BoS.

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and stuff they liked doing when I was a part of this pitiful gang
Everyone here have theirs dark past and trully i don't care about yours, If they now will be worthy ally we will stick to them, If not, we will think what do with when this time came.

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The way they play is strictly what is called "criminal" in this game.
No lawful, westland harsh, sob.

Szelus, always somethink, i used to focus on stuff like that. Even if they it exist.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 20:14 by Gladwin »

K0FM

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I get the arguments being put forth by BoS members, how they need more numbers (though they have been playing with red muhos for quite some time now, and it hasn't been that successful, at least as of yet).  But there are responsibilities that come with being a dev-created faction.  One of those is sticking somewhat to the lore.  Though I have no knowledge of the latest Fallout games, BoS was a introverted, closed-minded military organization with a strong, if not religious, devotion to technology.  It wasn't meant to have the biggest numbers, or to be ever-present in the wasteland, or to be defenders of the downtrodden.  To partner with an anarchist faction, or a faction of raiders like the Desert Wanderers, doesn't make sense from a BoS historical perspective.  However being friendly with a faction like the Treasure Hunters made perfect sense (people who would go out and discover technological "treasures" for trade to you).  Except that got ruined by partnering with red Muhos who attacked them repeatedly, including even your own members.  Makes sense from their perspective, they are anarchists after all, but not sure how that made sense for BoS. 

If you want to play as a pvp-circle jerk swarm gang, or if you want your leader to continue to dress up in sand robes and roleplay as a suicide bomber, there are factions for that already.  Or you can play it closer as it was in the lore, as a heavily-armed but smaller strike force.  Ultimately it doesn't matter what I think, or you guys think.  Its what the devs think, and if they are content with the direction BoS is headed than that's all that matters.

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Vilgefortz

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Isn't Brotherhood a small strike force? We've just allied with other faction, not included them in our ranks. We have some... mutual benefits. Its not precedence in this game. There is already ally between NCR raiders and Talon raiders which actually is ally between lore faction and pkrs.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 21:17 by Vilgefortz »

Blackeyed

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there we go. someone reminding u hypocrit NCRs that u re playing with raiders too, whatever the hell "raiders" is.

BB.

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To partner with an anarchist faction, or a faction of raiders like the Desert Wanderers, doesn't make sense from a BoS historical perspective.
+


This game is about PK, and trully.
If you understand it and want to support the view, why won't you just join a regular PK gang, for fucks sake...

There is already ally between NCR raiders and Talon raiders which actually is ally between lore faction and pkrs.
So you want to just skip roleplay part and put more pvp stuff in this place. Okay, then same again, why won't you just join DW and do pvp instead of pretending you're a roleplay faction?

K0FM

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Isn't Brotherhood a small strike force? We've just allied with other faction, not included them in our ranks.

Well, with that reasoning, what stops BoS from partnering with Enclave then if/when they appear in game?

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We have some... mutual benefits. Its not precedence in this game. There is already ally between NCR and Talon which actually is ally between lore faction and pkrs.

Talon Company was, for most of this session, the modern day equivalent of a private military company.  The NCR pays them for services during Bank Event, for example.  Its irrelevant though, as the New California Republic's lore grants it a lot more flexibility; it can be expansionist (i.e swarm with large numbers), or it can be cynical (proclaim to stand for certain values in propaganda but in reality furthering their own position or power).  Think of it as a current-era large government, which can do good and bad things.

There is a reason why BoS took this long to appear in game, precisely because its not an easy faction to RP.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 22:13 by K0FM »
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Lucek666

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NCR is all about politic, same like all known countries on this world. Politic is all about hypocrisy, pragmatism and crap compromises. To that it is country placed in harsh post-war reality what makes things even more hard. If you keep in mind these facts then you can't be suprised that NCR making some morally questionable alliances.
Honestly, there is no sense in comparing BoS to NCR and for sure no sense in using NCR as excuse for BoS own crap.

Vilgefortz

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Yes there is no reason to compare NCR and BoS and most of our movements should remain classifed because we are military organisation, Feel honored that we share informations about our mutual benefits with you.

Gladwin

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I appologise for grouping it like that but it would be easier for me to answer it, I just gruped argument agains.

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I get the arguments being put forth by BoS members, how they need more numbers (though they have been playing with red muhos for quite some time now, and it hasn't been that successful, at least as of yet).
context my dear friend. If you will just throws stuff like that there is no point in answering to your post. Yup, we aren't uber swarm by our own memebers, yup we will not pretend to be one. if you will not just throw thoughts i can answer deeper.

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But there are responsibilities that come with being a dev-created faction.  One of those is sticking somewhat to the lore.
Ofcourse i and look, we are just alpha squad who went to westlands. Idea of this aliance isn't just somethink like ,, make aliances, yey, more aliances, more powhar,, Mind one think, BoS in fonline 2 have suffered grevious casualities during war with supermutants. By lore, we had to shut ourselfs in BoS bunker for 72 years and even that was not enought. How huge loses were, we can only imagine, but it had to leave scrath on the ideology, also recruting westlanders had to bring new ideas. You can just simply put it like ,,kek, BoS was stong, powha armorhs, no aliances,,. Second this is drastic change of westlands, we just came out of our bunker and we see westlands different we saw them before. There is many things i can think about. It was quite mistake from our sides prolly, because we should more often post stuff for everyone to understand our actions and motives.

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Though I have no knowledge of the latest Fallout games,
doesn't matter just 1,2 ( changed a bit ) not even tactic. (btw exept new vegas fuck every new)

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BoS was a introverted, closed-minded military organization with a strong, if not religious, devotion to technology, It wasn't meant to have the biggest numbers, or to be ever-present in the wasteland, or to be defenders of the downtrodden
,,high Elders declare a new order witch allows the Brotherhood of Steel to start recruiting selected, tough and experienced wastelanders.,, Yup, and imagine what they can do to obtain this technology if they can't do it by themselfs. T4 is main priority of the brootherhood. This is purpose of it existance, techonology.

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To partner with an anarchist faction, or a faction of raiders like the Desert Wanderers, doesn't make sense from a BoS historical perspective.
i was talking about naming someone raider or criminalis, you can back to this.

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However being friendly with a faction like the Treasure Hunters made perfect sense (people who would go out and discover technological "treasures" for trade to you).
Yup, tresure hunters were one of the first that we talked ( or they with us, i forgot) and trully it is quite sad for me that we have to fight agains each other. But politic of the new world. You can think about it from different side, ppl who are searching for prewartech can be partners or Competition. Depends on so many thinks. But it have no matter. Trully it is quite sad for us, but sides has been set. And we have to deal with it.

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Except that got ruined by partnering with red Muhos who attacked them repeatedly, including even your own members.
  Got ruined because politics of westlands. But to put it simple.
Currently i don't know, i have less time now, exams stuff like that.<- They attacked our Bunker <- two of our brothers attacked NCR (yes they have been punished because of their stupidity) <- muhos somewhere here? <-Talons raided Bunker<- relations with NCR got worse <- we started to shot NCR ( some action in glow, were situation when ppl had just enought NCR) <-More players got killed in BoS ( i heard from NCR they got killed also) <- we started to doubt about sence of this relationships <- NCR started to shot us we have NCR didn't liked some of us and quoting ,, shoted them no matter what fraction they are in,, <- players with bad reputation in BoS ranks<-increased our recrutation<-(relations still preety good)<- examples of BoS member killed by Talons with NCR ( and killed NCR by BoS, few day ago i got this info, so after this whole mess) <- we keep aliance with NCR <-Talons declarated war with US ( reason unknow) Ad to it some propaganda from both sides on forum, and a lot of other thinks. That is why i hate politics. What i have gave you isn't explenation of our conflict with NCR. It only explain why our relations with TH ended this way. Our relations with NCR affected our relations with TH. Could i make here some mistakes? Sure, i m not politician. But it generaly looked like that. wait, hm i think this is generaly how our relations went. ( yes we have got support from some NCR related members, also i m not blaming NCR here or justifice BoS, We had just lack of converstaion NCR - BoS and this is why it ended like that. Don't kill me) Later about muhos relations.

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Makes sense from their perspective, they are anarchists after all, but not sure how that made sense for BoS.
Depends how you see it, vincere est totum isn't just battlecry it have meaning. ,,To win is everythink,, I was the one who suggested this aliance and i was the one who convinced Surgeon to do it (also one who writed this proposal) So feel free to blame me. Because in my opinions, in situtation like that ( with history of heavy casualities, change of doctrine, etc ) BoS in order to succesful preserve pre tech, could do somethink like that. Mind that we are just alpha squad. We aren't full BoS force, if we can't succseful by our force do you expet to BoS stay and be slaughter? Or they will search for ally? ,,Someone who isn't from this part of westlands, and organisation which ideology can help in destoying corrupted system of current westlands, and after it rebuding it propely,, Also for me it sound resonable, BoS with trauma after war witch Lieutentats could do somethink like that in order to minimalise casualities. You can't watch on fonline bible like ,, oh they lost so many members, kek, respawn,, It is hard to build it whole. But we are trying and we can justify our choices.

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If you want to play as a pvp-circle jerk swarm gang,
i started doubt in sense of answering you.

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if you want your leader to continue to dress up in sand robes and roleplay as a suicide bomber, there are factions for that already.
EVERYONE BB. IS MAKING HIS PERONAL WIPE TRUST ME. I heard about it few times, still no proves. Talked about it even with noisy.

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Or you can play it closer as it was in the lore, as a heavily-armed but smaller strike force.
We are trying to be as lore friedly as posible, with choices making bos relevant. We are new fraction in this settled stage of few teams. ,,heavily-armed,, like everyone?

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Its what the devs think, and if they are content with the direction BoS is headed than that's all that matters.
yup.

I DON"T COMPARE BOS TO NCR FFS ( just saying)

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Well, with that reasoning, what stops BoS from partnering with Enclave then if/when they appear in game?
lore, and if they will have some ally ( like enclave troopers ) with them also war

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There is a reason why BoS took this long to appear in game, precisely because its not an easy faction to RP.
it is hard. also i didn't answered to part about talons because it's seems good for me

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NCR is all about politic, same like all known countries on this world. Politic is all about hypocrisy, pragmatism and crap compromises. To that it is country placed in harsh post-war reality what makes things even more hard. If you keep in mind these facts then you can't be suprised that NCR making some morally questionable alliances.
  yup

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Honestly, there is no sense in comparing BoS to NCR and for sure no sense in using NCR as excuse for BoS own crap.
yup

NCR in this post is here only if they are neccecary.
If i missed somethink or it souds a bit strange tell me i were writting it tired and i could made some mistakes.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 23:48 by Gladwin »

Boon

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My thoughts on this.

BoS raiders VS NCR raiders
So, like, when this Komi guy started up Brotherhood of Steel, right, they was all like "hey we are all neutral n shit"
"we will have no allies brah", and so, like they said, they had no allies, yeah.

So us NCR dudes and those BoS knights were bein' all neutral-like. Except for that town-control thingy, we'd like be best friends then.
Best buds.
Naw I don't rightly know what happened between BoS and those soldier-merc boys in Talons, at this point in time it hardly even matters, eh?
It donn matter one bit.
Well maybe they went and started this lil' spark between us, this lil' fight, this lil' war.
But boy, if things kept goin' the same way we was goin', ther' was gonna' be no avoidin' this arg-u-ment.

Y'see, we goin' on our lil' adventures in de wastes, y'know? So we find some neat-lookin' prospect, think we'd get some nice booty.
But OHHH NOOO! One of dem' Botherhood Kites be here already!

So ye be thinkin' "why doncha jest go on in afta' him den', split all de looties thar be looted, n' den ya'll part ways?"
Naw matey, y'see, these Knights don' like sharin' that tech.
Even if we keeps a lookout, for trouble n' the likes,  dat Paladin jest gonna up-n-out without no word!
We done not like it one bit.
Dis' was no ice-o-lated in-si-dent, n' we gots sick of it.
It just wern't meant to be, any fool culda' seen it a miles away!

Ya'll got yer' conspiracy theorys, but de' answer is so damn simple. It's wot' started all dis' mess.
This Botherhood was all different durin' dis' timeline, now dey' gots some doctor dude incharge.

With these lil' developments they be havin', maybe some sorta' alliance coulda be possible, but y'see, so much has happin'd n' I don' think lads of each side would want it to be.
[/'roleplay']

BoS-DW-MUKHO tea party
So you guys for a time refused to make an alliance (can't remember if that was a rule or not, anyway...) to not go against roleplay or somesuch, which is pretty much why the BoS went to war with NCR&Friends.

Now unable to fight the NCR Bear, Talon's talons and other top elite peekay gangz, the Brotherhood has resorted to making a 100% REAL ACTUAL OFFICIAL ALLIANCE OF SUPER AWESOME with Desert Wanderers and the lovely Mukhosransk (who only raided Lost Hills a few times) who are totally not raiders or anything and ofcourse not ruining the Brotherhood of Steel's roleplay at all.

Ofcourse a small group can't really compete in today's wasteland, I don't really know what you guys expected, you knew the situation of the server.
But this alliance seems to be where the Brotherhood stops and the peekay gang beings.

tl;dr version
brotherhood no want ally so maked factions enemies instead
now brotherhood maked ally with other factions to fight the enemy factions
Wasteland is still harsh.
Plasma Rifle is overpowered.
H&K CAWS is overpowered.

Surgeon

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 Well,first of all...I cant understand what do you mean by "heavy armed little group",4 ppl in PA and gatlings?Yeah,surely it will suit the lore but ,HEY,wake up!We dont have t4 respawn point as some people think,so our stuff is absolutly same as yours(we are just squad),and its realy lovely to see some backstory with talons like "private military organisation,but surely not raiders",ok.I have nothing against it,but I think we all know WHY NCR made this ally and thats why you should understand why Brotherhood made ally with DW and MUKHO.
 
 I dont want to touch this topic about relations with TH,NCR,Talons,mrmc and so on.The arrengements we made before failed,and you know why they failed,so please,dont make round eyes and say that you cant understand why BoS cant ally with TH for example.

 Lets also mention the fact that Brotherhood is not souvenier organisation in which,as you thought,you can put your char and run with others to wh ,singing jingle jangle jingle and put prewar data in inv as lucky talisman.

 Lets also mention that Brotherhood is organisation with strict rules,but it doesnt mean that Brotherhood is stupid  and seeing big numbers of enemy,will go on following some old rules of "no ally" and die defending Lost Hills 5 vs 20.Brotherhood following its aims,and war with NCR means war,not funny running of 5 guys vs 20.Ah,sure it so much fits rp and your chest with loot from these guys.

Extra: Its ally,not uniting.And the fact that some DW guy killed you,doesnt mean that Brotherhood is blame for this.Brotherhood follow codex,but it is BROTHERHOOD codex,not DW or MUKHOSRANSK codex,they follow their own rules.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 07:45 by Surgeon »

K0FM

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ok.I have nothing against it,but I think we all know WHY NCR made this ally and thats why you should understand why Brotherhood made ally with DW.

I know why BoS reached out to DW/Muhos.  I acknowledged as much in my previous post.  The point stands that it doesn't make sense from an RP perspective.  You can dance around that however you like.

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pleasse,dont make round eyes and say that you cant understand why BoS cant ally with TH for example.

Actually I cannot.  As two of their members were awarded in ceremony which you presided over.  But I understand you cant let that get in the way of progress.

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Lets also mention that Brotherhood is organisation with strict rules

I don't see anything in you or your members posts that would suggest a strict adherence to a ruleset.  In fact its the opposite, in that you are arguing for exceptions to the rules (we are too small, we are just an apha squad, look at everyone else, etc).
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 08:51 by K0FM »
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Noisy

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Yeah,surely it will suit the lore but ,HEY,wake up! blah blah blah blah

*before it all began*
-- It wont be easy to RP this thing, you know.
-- Ye, I know, but we will manage
-- You won't get army of like minded individuals, you know.
-- Ye, I know, I am ready to make it work
-- Ok then bud, you got our support  [ places bet on how long it will take One to break ]

aaand here we are... having this discussion now..
where Ones actions does not matter anymore, because apparently "everyone else does that"..
and it is ALL about The WAR now.

I dig that... I really do. I love wars. BUT! I would prefer to have you guys play as Enclave or actual "Raiders" faction in that case. It just suits better.
"But how it would change anything?" you might ask.
and "Why there is so much negativity around our humble persona's?" you might add.

For me it is a matter of receiving falsely advertised product.
Wesan did very specific description of what we can expect.
Then marketing department did very good job of promoting that vision......
right until vote, that defined faction future, was closed with success. Right that moment 180 happened.

tldr:
 -- I like having you as opponents, that brought my interest to the game again.
 -- I am disappointed in you, for giving up so fast (I was betting for lot more).. basically, I think you fucked up the whole BOS vision big time.


P.S: Surge, inb4 you take it personally as always. I was not addressing your majesty, used your quote only as anchor point.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 08:55 by Noisy »
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Vilgefortz

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Yeah,surely it will suit the lore but ,HEY,wake up! blah blah blah blah

*before it all began*
-- It wont be easy to RP this thing, you know.
-- Ye, I know, but we will manage
-- You won't get army of like minded individuals, you know.
-- Ye, I know, I am ready to make it work
-- Ok then bud, you got our support  [ places bet on how long it will take One to break ]

aaand here we are... having this discussion now..
where Ones actions does not matter anymore, because apparently "everyone else does that"..
and it is ALL about The WAR now.

I dig that... I really do. I love wars. BUT! I would prefer to have you guys play as Enclave or actual "Raiders" faction in that case. It just suits better.
"But how it would change anything?" you might ask.
and "Why there is so much negativity around our humble persona's?" you might add.

For me it is a matter of receiving falsely advertised product.
Wesan did very specific description of what we can expect.
Then marketing department did very good job of promoting that vision......
right until vote, that defined faction future, was closed with success. Right that moment 180 happened.

tldr:
 -- I like having you as opponents, that brought my interest to the game again.
 -- I am disappointed in you, for giving up so fast (I was betting for lot more).. basically, I think you fucked up the whole BOS vision big time.


P.S: Surge, inb4 you take it personally as always. I was not addressing your majesty, used your quote only as anchor point.
I'd like to add my voice here. I see that the WAR and PVP is the thing that troubles you so much.
About the war. It wasnt us who started this war. We died from hands of NCR guys long before it started and long before Sotrix 'incident', who as far as i remember was punished for it. It was just matter of time.
About RP. Did you really expect military organisation to just ignore those incidents? We fought back as much as we can. I admire you as enemy, its not real life fight, we should respect each other.

Yes I had had some bad day when i met those wutangs like 1000 times in row and they outnumbered me every time but who doesn't have bad days huh (however isnt taunting enemy when lying in blood on the floor kind of rp though)?

Noisy

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@Vilgefortz
You completely missed the point... like 100% miss :)
once again you skipped the meaning and took single word out of context.

I see that the WAR and PVP is the thing that troubles you so much.

In fact reality is opposite

I admire you as opponents, we DO respect each other.
fixed
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 09:24 by Noisy »
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