Author Topic: Remove Crit Roll from Plasma Rifle  (Read 704 times)

Boon

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Remove Crit Roll from Plasma Rifle
« on: May 05, 2019, 01:01 »
SO BASICALLY


Giving highest roll to weapon with highest damage was a big mistace.
Remove the crit roll, it remains a powerful weapon but not OP as it is.


Wasteland is still harsh.
Plasma Rifle is overpowered.
H&K CAWS is overpowered.

Adams

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Re: Remove Crit Roll from Plasma Rifle
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2019, 13:51 »
There is a rule, if something is overpowered, its pretty much the only thing everyone uses. Somehow you get to see miniguns and other stuff being used as well. Im not saying its not strong, its just if it were to be nerfed itd become pretty much useless.

bziumaj

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Re: Remove Crit Roll from Plasma Rifle
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2019, 00:12 »
better nerf KO

Dean Domino

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Re: Remove Crit Roll from Plasma Rifle
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2019, 00:34 »
no
GOD BLESS BBS


Boon

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Re: Remove Crit Roll from Plasma Rifle
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2019, 01:33 »
There is a rule, if something is overpowered, its pretty much the only thing everyone uses.

Outside of long-range fights, plasma rifle is just about all you ever see.


Im not saying its not strong, its just if it were to be nerfed itd become pretty much useless.

"useless"... I don't think that word means what you think it means.
But anyway - why would it be useless? What weapon would replace it?
Wasteland is still harsh.
Plasma Rifle is overpowered.
H&K CAWS is overpowered.

Blobfish

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Re: Remove Crit Roll from Plasma Rifle
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2019, 15:07 »
plasma +4 roll base, like other decent weapons.

Adams

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Re: Remove Crit Roll from Plasma Rifle
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2019, 19:16 »


Outside of long-range fights, plasma rifle is just about all you ever see.

Seems like we playing a different game. All i see is 70% avengers, rest plasmas,flamers and grenades.



"useless"... I don't think that word means what you think it means.
But anyway - why would it be useless? What weapon would replace it?


None. It would remain the best in its category, just not worth the hassle.

MemeMaster

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Re: Remove Crit Roll from Plasma Rifle
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2019, 20:18 »
SO BASICALLY


Giving highest roll to weapon with highest damage was a big mistace.
Remove the crit roll, it remains a powerful weapon but not OP as it is.

I very apologize, but I'll verbally destroy you by telling only one word:

A basically big mistace.

Seki

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Re: Remove Crit Roll from Plasma Rifle
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2019, 21:25 »
Keep in mind that aim shots are in general very RNG based so it might give you feel that its overpowered if attacker gets few lucky crits in a row but on average its not that strong. There is a reason why as Adams said there are much more avenger users than plasma rifle.

Marina Usnavy

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Re: Remove Crit Roll from Plasma Rifle
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2019, 04:26 »
kek

Boon

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Re: Remove Crit Roll from Plasma Rifle
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2019, 05:56 »
There is a reason why as Adams said there are much more avenger users than plasma rifle.

My bad, could have written that better.
Outside of long-range fights, snipers almost always carry plasma rifle.


Keep in mind that aim shots are in general very RNG based so it might give you feel that its overpowered if attacker gets few lucky crits in a row but on average its not that strong.

Well yes... but actually no.

It is all very random, you can get 3 bypasses in a row then miss 4 shots and the other 6 don't crit.
You can KO a guy in APA with a BB gun, random is god!

But that applies to any aim shot weapon.
So if that's the case, why is plasma rifle so widely used? What makes it so damn special?

highest roll to weapon with highest damage

"should I go for crits or damage? who am I kidding lol its the same weapon xdddd"

kek

Disappointed but in no way surprised that one of the biggest plasma rifle users on the server has nothing to add other than "kek"
You should really ask Dean out! He is friendly but very shy.
Wasteland is still harsh.
Plasma Rifle is overpowered.
H&K CAWS is overpowered.

Alexander

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Re: Remove Crit Roll from Plasma Rifle
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2019, 03:27 »
There is nothing that merits a t3 weapon to be on par as its t4 counterpart. Why get turbo when you can even craft a BETTER WEAPON with a crit chance 9 roll 17 plasma? Sure random is god, but the point stands. This weapon should not have a higher base roll than 4.
Community: When is the wipe?

Wesan: Not anytime soon

Adams

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Re: Remove Crit Roll from Plasma Rifle
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2019, 20:19 »
There is nothing that merits a t3 weapon to be on par as its t4 counterpart. Why get turbo when you can even craft a BETTER WEAPON with a crit chance 9 roll 17 plasma? Sure random is god, but the point stands. This weapon should not have a higher base roll than 4.
Good luck crafting 4 range ap cost max roll 9crit chance plasma rifle:d Tpr isnt t4, its like T3,5.

Blackwood

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Re: Remove Crit Roll from Plasma Rifle
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2019, 13:14 »
Why nerf the only decent energy gun you can carry solo, when you can counter it as easily as any other with a Tesla Armor? I am obligued to carry a p90 with me every time I go alone with plasma. It's double risk to lose weapons, and yet I can be beated by a normal Avenger or an LSW on range if I don't get the desired criticals (Yes, sometimes you do a very good drop/bypass/ko, or sometimes you get 4 or 5 consecutive normal hits with no consequences).

If it's a nerf what is needed, I'd rather say that reducing the magazine from 10 to 5 or 6 bullets would be much better solution than reducing it's critical roll.

T-888

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Re: Remove Crit Roll from Plasma Rifle
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2019, 07:50 »
It is all very random, you can get 3 bypasses in a row then miss 4 shots and the other 6 don't crit.
You can KO a guy in APA with a BB gun, random is god!

But that applies to any aim shot weapon.
So if that's the case, why is plasma rifle so widely used? What makes it so damn special?

The high damage output, potential critical roll outweighs some of the unreliability of aimed shot mechanics.

The controversy around plasma rifle underlines many flaws of the critical table and aimed shot balance. Critical table wasn't designed with such high values in mind, it's also strictly functional at best, it works and maintains a certain degree of balance, but at the cost of finer details to address many balance issues. The distribution of the different kind of effects applied and their approximate chance is basic at many levels, lower rolls have weak effects and higher rolls have strong effects, since plasma rifle has the potential to score very high rolls more often than other weapons, it creates a disproportional boost to its power due to the high damage values it has. Higher rolls have most of the bypasses, knockouts and blinds, and with increased roll, bonuses apply only on the strongest one, last roll gets a bonus, the maximum roll is raised and minimal decreased.

It's a bad way to balance any aimed shot weapons, to just slap more roll on it, it's basic and functional, but you do see now what problems it can create. Instead of roll, with the current critical table being what it is, slapping more critical chance on weapons is a better way, because it increases the chance for all rolls to take effect, not just the strongest.

Slapping more roll on weapons wouldn't be so bad, if the critical table had more evenly distributed chance of effects among rolls, then a blunt increase in roll wouldn't cause such an upset of balance.

In general, talking about aimed shots, the damage multiplier of the critical table needs to be static and even, unlike now where there is a large difference that makes weaker rolls do less damage and higher rolls more damaging, it simply contributes for aimed shots to have a big difference between min/max damage. You either do a lot of damage or you do very little, with this kind of setup, more often than not. For these same reasons I have always disliked how bypasses work, some of the power that bypasses harness could be transferred to critical table damage multipliers by decreasing the amount bypasses reduce armor.

Combine everything I said, you get a sniper/critical character that does a more consistent, reliable and predictable damage without overpowering them, it solves the problem with any critical based bonuses on weapons, allows the SPECIAL point system to have a more even, well distributed, impactful system on how it influences the different chances of effects for more customization and possibilities.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 07:53 by T-888 »